evening commute observation

[gosling]

Most people will not give up their seat on the bus to someone holding a heavy toddler. I will.

Comments

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

That's because you're a good person. :)

A.
with hugs

[gosling.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. It's a little disturbing that I regularly observe that almost no-one else will, however...

[roozle.livejournal.com]

Doh! You're just nicer than most people.

I too have been occasionally outraged at how not-nice random strangers can be to people who were so careless as to become parents.

On the other hand, today while shopping, I had occasion to observe that it is sometimes unfortunate that it is socially unacceptable to chastise other people's children. A boy was tormenting his brother in the stroller next to him - rocking the stroller near to dumping him out, pulling his hair, twisting his fingers -- but the one I truely wanted to slap was the mother who never turned around to look at what the younger child was yelling about.

[bikergeek.livejournal.com]

First, it's common courtesy to behave graciously and show accomodation to anybody carrying something heavy, whether that's a child or several sacks of groceries.

There's a growing social trend of resentment of people with kids, and of the amount of social accommodation that gets made for them, as being child-free becomes a more common and more socially acceptable life choice. A lot of the consideration people used to give to parents had at its root the idea that "I'll be there someday too, and want other people to make accommodation for me." If you're the person who never has kids, and never plans to, eventually you feel more than a little put-upon.

Case in point: I can recall working with one person who was lazy and was chronically using her kids as an excuse to get out of work early, come in late, whatever. The rest of us got stuck with the remaining workload that she didn't do because she wasn't there.

Another friend of mine complains of the demise of child-free spaces--the sort where his parents told him, thirty years ago, "You can't go there, it's for grownups." Well, now he's paid his dues, he's a grownup, and wants to enjoy those spaces without little miscreants running around all over the place wreaking havoc--and he can't, because there's no such thing as a child-free space anymore, or even a space where children are expected to behave with something resembling adult manners, unless it's something that's legally age-restricted like a bar.

people need manners

[klingonlandlady.livejournal.com]

Well, I've seen them not give up seats to old people, too. Many people are just lazy.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

They really are. A week or three ago during my commute a guy with a cast on his foot and crutches got onto a crowded bus, and no one gave him a seat. (There wasn't much I could do about it; I was standing too. Though perhaps I should have made some pointed comment that would have embarrassed someone into giving him a seat. Or perhaps he should have just fallen on someone and hit them with the crutches in the process... "So sorry. Hard to stand on a moving bus on one foot with crutches, don't you know...")

on child-free spaces

[roozle.livejournal.com]

Tying together your first paragraph and your last one, I might observe that the problem isn't the demise of child-free spaces so much as it is the fraying of the social contract on what constitutes "common courtesy".

Being able to bring children into the big wide world is a good thing, letting them run amok there is a bad idea. But the problem is not the kids necessarily; the grownups have to set the standards and enforce them. In the comment you were answering, the problem wasn't really that the older child was a sneaky obnoxious bastard -- it was that his mother was completely ignoring his behavior.

Re: on child-free spaces

[quietann.livejournal.com]

I dunno... I just don't get parents who think that little kids will enjoy the mall. The older kid probably had had enough, but parent had to do "just one more thing..."

I guess I wonder whatever happened to babysitters. Or one parent (OK, mom) minding a couple families' worth of kids so the other moms could get stuff done.

Of course, my own perspective is skewed by the role _my_ mom played in the first neighborhood we lived in... There were several other mothers on the street who would toss their kids out the door as soon as they got home from school, and they weren't allowed to come back until dinner. My mom, OTOH, kept the house open and stocked with inexpensive and healthy snacks, and some of these kids showed up on the doorstep every afternoon. And she didn't even like kids!

But I do wonder about babysitters. Especially when I go to a really nice restaurant and there's a screaming toddler or six to ruin the experience. Especially when it's 9 or 10 at night, and the kid is clearly up past his/her bedtime. Or when I go to a PG-13 movie and there are a bunch of clueless parents with their little kids there.

In general, I _like_ kids... but I don't want to have to deal with them everywhere I go

Re: people need manners

[tb]

Also, don't underestimate the power of obliviousness. Many people just don't see other people anymore; I've certainly been there when tired or wrapped up in my own issues.

I think that as things get more crowded, we tend to tune out other people more. I've noticed that people in less densely-populated areas seem to be nicer, in general. Or maybe it's because I relax more in those places and have the wherewithal to notice them on turn.

Re: people need manners

[quietann.livejournal.com]

yes yes yes. There were times, during the school year, when you could not have extracted me from my seat on the green line for anything... and times when I quite deliberately piled the seat next to me on the commuter rail with stuff, so no one would sit there.

I'm not terribly social, but most of the time I have manners. but not always....