What am I overlooking?

[gosling]

My parents have a bit of a challenge, and I'm not finding a solution. Their house is over-run with papers and grime. Ninety percent of the paper needs to go to its fate as paper recycling, but interspersed with these are important documents and treasures -- stock certificates, diplomas, the only known photos of my grandparents' wedding, etc. There is a lot of family history and financial information scattered throughout the junk and dirt.

Obviously this needs sorting, but my parents are really frail at this point. My mother's mind is utterly as sharp as ever, but she really can't physically do more than a minuscule amount of this each day. My dad is physically healthy enough, but he is also developing increasingly severe memory problems; he really can't maintain the focus to do much of anything most days.

The magnitude of the work is overwhelming. My sister's wife and step-son were there for almost a week and maybe managed to get through five percent of it. Chip and I are down there absolutely whenever we possibly can, but I really can't take off from work unless my employers are on vacation. (I provide their childcare. If I don't work, they can't either; I take that responsibility very seriously. I think we are all grateful for my rather robust immune system.) Chip has thought of taking a day at a time and going down on his own, which might work, although the cost of transport makes this not a realistic option all that frequently. (Transporting all three of us gets even more complicated, and obviously we can't leave Benjamin on his own while we go.)

Essentially what we have is a situation where both my sister and I (and our families) are spending as much time there as we possibly can afford both in terms of time and money, but it clearly is inadequate to their needs. They just bought into a retirement community, which now puts real urgency on the task. They have bridge loan, but they need to get their house fit to sell (and ideally empty) as soon as possible and then (in a not exactly optimal market) sell it as soon as possible.

I've approached them about hiring someone, but my dad absolutely will not even begin to entertain the possibility. He is not even thrilled at all about having us in the house, even though I am the kid he is closest to, and he really likes both Chip and Benjamin a great deal. (Yes he has some issues. He's also an old man well aware that his once keen mind is failing --personally that would be my worst nightmare. He is in the middle of a devastating loss already, and I feel his wishes should be respected, even when they are impractical. The privacy of his living space really matters to him.) Add to this the clear stress on Benjamin (and me) whenever we go. I don't handle staying in that dirty an environment very well, and even though I try really hard to hide my stress from Benjamin, I know he picks up on it anyway. (He also travels poorly. He might do better on the train, but that is insanely expensive -- more than three times the cost of driving. It's also a way longer trip that way, and would leave us a lot less time to do the work we are actually there to do.)

So there is a good answer somewhere perhaps, but I haven't yet managed to see what it is.

Comments

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry this is all so difficult, but it's great that you seem to have such supportive family members.

Perhaps you could bring a bunch of boxes of papers back to your place and thus be able to work on it at home? Or would your father find that unacceptable?

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

I was about to suggest that. Just bring 2-3 boxes back to your place each time, and be sure to return with the "good" or "ask them if it's good" stuff.

How far away is this? If it's over an hour drive, definitely take boxes home to work on for them.

[fenicedautun.livejournal.com]

If you need boxes, I have empty ones in my basement...(and I could even store 2-3 boxes of papers that you mean to work on over a 2-3 week timespan in said basement. It gets cold, but papers don't mind)

[gosling.livejournal.com]

Thanks. :-)

They have boxes, but I appreciate the offer.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

It's at least three hours, more if traffic is its usual sub-optimal self.

[ocschwar.livejournal.com]

Self storage. Pick a facility that will protect these papers from the elements. And keep going at that pace. At 5% a week, we're talking six months. At a slower pace, you can just do one box of papers per visit.

[dancingwolfgrrl.livejournal.com]

I second this option. If it's really 6 months - or even three months - of full-time work for two people, then taking a dozen boxes at a time home and sorting through them or strategizing to get yourself a day here and a day there are only going to make tiny little dents.

Alternately, what about hiring someone else to go through whatever you can't reasonably manage (whether by taking stuff home or going up there or what) *after* they're out of the house? It seems like a handful of phone calls would make it easy to tell what the financial difference would be between storing and hiring, and then you could factor in the stress...

[mrf-arch.livejournal.com]

Especially if you can ship the whole mess to a self-storage facility much nearer to you, and cut down the total time spent on logistics, in favor of time spent actually sorting.

[catya.livejournal.com]

I would seriously consider just packing all the papers, or packing anything that MIGHT be important, rather than sorting everything at this point.

[weegoddess.livejournal.com]

Geez, these ideas are great; I can't think of anything better. Taking a few boxen home might be hard for your parents, but it really seems to be the most cost-effective solution. I know that you want to respect your father's feelings, but they can't have everything. This is the consequence of never throwing things away or keeping them sorted.

Hmmm...I might need to show J this post...

[hammercock.livejournal.com]

Your dad isn't being realistic about this at all, but I don't know how you can get around that other than to either sort of sneak around him and grab some boxes while he isn't looking, packing *everything* without regard to sorting, or renting a storage facility (maybe one of the pod thingies?).

Bleh. Sorry. *hug*

[whuffle.livejournal.com]

I'll second (and third) what other posters have said: you and your sister should each rent a UHaul trailer down there the next time you go: just concentrate on packing boxes. Bring the boxes back to your place and sort through them. Anything important should return to your parents, labelled and neatly packed. Everything else should get recycled for them. If you and your sister both take a UHaul worth of boxes each time you visit and sort them at home, you should be able to make reasonable progress. If needed, I know of a personal organizer here in MA who could help you sort boxes once you have them up here.

If you approach it with your dad as a way to get the needed work done by a family member rather than a stranger, hopefully it will go over reasonably well.

[klingonlandlady.livejournal.com]

That all sounds good... the really efficient way would be pack boxes of papers, put them in a self-storage near you, then secretly get a personal organizer to help you sort once the papers are off-site. Sounds like a big job. And, it would get them a cleaner house sooner.

[noire.livejournal.com]

This is what I would have suggested if klingonlandlady hadn't gotten there first.

But lots of hugs and support because I know this is very difficult for you.

And you dad really is being unrealistic in this situation...you know that, I think, but there's nothing one can do...

[koshmom.livejournal.com]

If your dad is dead set against hiring someone, then I don't think that sneaking around and hiring someone is the way to go. Convincing someone of the intelligence of getting someone is one thing, but lying outright is another issue altogether.

Lying to someone "for their own good" is a sore spot with me. Especially since your folks are getting older, it really insults their dignity, which may be all they have left at their age. How will they ever feel comfortable with you making their medical decisions, etc for them if they can no longer trust that you'll be truthful with them?

[gosling.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm not even sure *why* it is so hard, but yeah...

[rmd.livejournal.com]

yeah. this seems like a good idea.

[drwex]

People have already given you the answers I would have - the urgency is in getting the house empty and ready for sale, not the sorting itself. So do whatever you need to do to empty the house while maintaining the contents for later evaluation.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

yes. this. If the house needs to be sold ASAP, getting the stuff out of there is the most important task.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

Yeah I know that really. *sigh* It's the maintaining the contents in a form they can realistically sort (and a place they can easily access) that is the hard part. I don't think there is anywhere to *put* a pod at the retirement community.

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

I can't add to the good advice you've been given: I can but hug. *hugs encouragingly*

[gosling.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

[remcat.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry about your situation. Please don't try to do it all by yourself, under such a time constraint. It took my mom's family six months (with 6 brothers and sisters to share the task) to deal with their parents' similar-sounding mess of junk/valuable antiques/random paper/critical records/etc.

I was going to suggest one of those "POD" things where storage is delivered to the site, you load it up, and then you can unload it when you have time and energy -- looks like other people have the same basic idea.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

That's an excellent point about how monumental the task really is. I suspect really there are years of work ahead if we did it throughly, and that isn't a realistic option. I think ultimately it *will* all have to go to Maine (where they are moving) in whatever state it is at the time. My hope at this point is just to get it to where we have found most of the critical documents, but I suspect that is unrealistic.

Ditto and Stuff

[baronet.livejournal.com]

When I read your message, I thought of the same options that other people have mentioned:
A: transport a bunch of it back to your local environment, and then sort through it in smaller chunks, and
B: store the stuff, sell the house, and sort through it later.

I would propose B as the baseline solution, and then talk about improvements on it. Your father might consider A to be better than leaving stuff in storage, even if he is currently resistant to the idea. His baseline is "stay here until we deal with it all" or something like that, and that isn't workable. He needs to reset his baseline. Maybe the baseline should be "we throw it all out, because we're selling the house." From there, there are a lot of improvements possible, including hiring a friend of yours to sort through the piles and do a first pass. To speak against my own suggestion, I'll note that reseting the baseline assumptions of someone with memory problems is probably difficult.

I'll note that B: could easily extend long enough that your father's opinion changes or becomes less well defined. That isn't a good thing, but it would simplify the situation.

Your employers can try to be more flexible about days off for you if you need us to. Your employers can also try to be better about scheduling our vacations and communicating with you.

Re: Ditto and Stuff

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

The only issue with putting off the paper sorting until after the house sale is that there might be documents in there that could be needed before then. Of course, in my experience, most documents can be duplicated if lost - birth certificates and passports, etc. - but then it's a matter of the hassle of sorting (which needs doing anyway) versus the hassle of the beaurocratic (sp?) red tape to replace the important papers.

Re: Ditto and Stuff

[gosling.livejournal.com]

My employers rock. :-)

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

In my professional opinion, I agree that you should pack up all the papers and have them sorted offsite, either by you guys and/or by someone (like me!) who you pay to do it. (Ask me in email about my sooper-sekrit friends-only rate for this.) It's a blessing if your folks will allow you to remove the papers from the house; many hoarders resist that loss of control. It's really a shame your dad is so uncomfortable having someone in. Many professional organizers specialize in working with just this type of client, and would be very kind and non-judgmental.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

I actually have been subtly trying to convince my mom to hire you or one of your fellow organizers for a long time. She is open to the idea, but hasn't had any luck convincing my dad. In the very theoretical event that she ever did convince him, are you available to travel down there for a few days at a time, or is that just not something you do? (It's in the NYC suburbs, so travel time clearly is relevant here.)

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

Yep, I have done that before. If it's a 2-3 day gig, I only ask for my travel expenses to be paid - I don't charge for travel time.

I grew up in the NYC suburbs! :-)

[gingicat]

I second the idea of getting the papers offsite to sort, and getting help.

Best wishes, hon. *hugs*

[gosling.livejournal.com]

thanks *hug*

[beah.livejournal.com]

I sympathize with this situation. I helped my parents prep their house for sale, which involved much the same kind of work, and it was incredibly stressful for everyone.

Given that your parents are frail and aging, what about hiring a geriatric care manager? My mother, who lives in DC, manages my grandmother's care (grandma is in FL) with the help of a geriatric care manager who has built a trusting relationship with grandma. The care manager used to be a nurse, and has a staff of care givers she works with. Between them, they take grandma to her doctor's appointments, shopping, out for entertainment, and deal with any issues that come up at home, like her washer breaking, cleaning, etc. I'll bet that you could find someone like that who could build a professional relationship with your parents and help get the cruft sorted through.

[gosling.livejournal.com]

They don't call it that, but the retirement community essentially will take over the geriatric care management when it becomes necessary. My mom deals with the management aspects really well at the moment. Her body may not be in such great shape, but my dad trusts her and she can keep track of just about anything. She also seems to have connections to pretty much anyone they could possibly need; she knows everyone, and has a real gift for a subtle and sincere sort of networking she has been practicing her whole life. She can drive just fine too, so that makes things easier. She just can't stand for long, walk much or lift anything at all heavy. Unfortunately those are just the physical abilities that sorting papers tend to require.

[roozle.livejournal.com]

My mom has been, bit by bit, working through a similarly Herculean task for about the last year and a half. I recognize the problem but I can't say anything more helpful than has already been said. I hope you will post what solution you eventually work out!