gosling | (no subject)

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yesallwomen

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More and more in the last few days I am in this place of complete feminist rage. And I am so so so tired of the attitude that says if I am furious about all the dangers and obstacles and general horribleness that women face every bloody day that that means I somehow must hate men.

I have a husband, a boyfriend and many many male friends whom I utterly trust and who are completely made of awesome. I have two sons who are the center of my universe. I have dedicated my career to caring for kids of all genders, and I care immensely about the well being of all of them.

Which is a part of *why* I am so furious at all the misogyny and general crushing of lives and emotions and freedom I see everywhere. I want a better world for those kids, and I want a better world for all of us who were once exactly like those kids. I want the whole world to be free of the damage the patriarchy does to us all.

#yesallwomen

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And I am so so so tired of the attitude that says if I am furious about all the dangers and obstacles and general horribleness that women face every bloody day that that means I somehow must hate men.

OMG so with you. I don't hate men. I want men, collectively, to be better because I like and love them, and because I refuse to succumb to the soft bigotry of low expectations of them.

May I borrow your awesome phrasing?

Sure! :)

WORD. SO MUCH WORD.

I want to say that your political goals seem quite reasonable to me but I'm not convinced that your attitude is the most productive one. But in this context, trying to explain that might seem to be inflammatory, so I posted it elsewhere (http://achinhibitor.livejournal.com/322518.html). YMMV.

I don't know you AT ALL, but your suggestion that Gosling's "attitude" isn't productive strikes me as one that comes from a place of profound privilege and blindness. If her actions are good and useful --which they ARE--WHO CARES what her attitude is? Isn't this journal EXACTLY her forum to express her feelings, whatever they are? Why would you even bother to criticize those feelings? Why would you think it is your place to do so? (And yes, I went and read your post and while I personally disagree with your attitude, because I think that it's a good deal MORE productive to expect the best of people than to expect the worst of them, my problem here is with you apparently trying to police Gosling's speech, not your own opinions. (Furthermore, the UCSB shooting which spurred this hashtag was an act committed by a man with an incredible amount of privilege, so your argument about the class-basis of this doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.))
As a woman in this culture Gosling is profoundly effected by misogyny Every. Single. Day. And most of the time she, like most of us, doesn't even let that rage and frustration and pain surface, she just goes along working hard to be a good person. You telling her that her attitude is not productive is a form of silencing her speech and her experiences and it sucks.

C, thanks for this. You said it really eloquently, and to be honest, I'm very tired of Dale's "helping".

This.

Hear hear.

Thank you. You put this far more eloquently than I could.

Edited 2014-05-30 20:04 (UTC)

Well said.

I'm not sure if you are saying women (or perhaps people in general) shouldn't be angry or that we shouldn't believe change for the better is possible. Possibly you are saying we shouldn't care deeply about other people and/or the future.

I am fairly sure, however, that at this point I am done having this conversation with you.

Anger is a useful emotion, I have learned. It shows us when something is wrong and gives us the energy to try to change things. Anyone who is not angry at the pervasive misogyny that pervades this culture is simply not paying attention.

Those who reduce this "hating men" are reacting defensively and, more problematically, in a reductionist paradigm. They are not looking at the actual issue, but by over simplifying and making it the victim's problem, they exonerate themselves.

A man who accuses a woman who is angry at the oppression she deals with constantly is not a friend or an ally, he is part of the problem and he needs to learn better.

This article puts it well, and nicely:
http://stealingcommas.blogspot.it/2013/06/how-not-to-be-privileged-ass-lazy.html

This one is more to the point and far less nice, but essentially says the same things:
http://decolonizeallthethings.wordpress.com/2014/03/03/how-to-be-an-ally-not-an-asshole/

I think both apply in this case.

Thank you.

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